Interoperability Minutes 2006-07-05
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Attendees
- Adam Peller <apeller@us.ibm.com>
- Chris Matthews <cmatthews@elinkbiz.com>
- Eddie O\\\'Neil <ekoneil@bea.com>
- Greg Murray <greg.murray@sun.com>
- James Margaris <jmargaris@nexaweb.com>
- Jason Wadsworth <wadsbone@thefrontside.net>
- John Janetos <jjanetos@laszlosystems.com>
- Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@us.ibm.com>
- Kevin Hakman <khakman@tibco.com>
- Kin Blas <jblas@adobe.com>
- Phil Berkland <berkland@us.ibm.com>
- Rama Gurram <rama.gurram@sap.com>
- Rüdiger Herrmann <rherrmann@innoopract.de>
- Ted Thibodeau <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>
Absent
- Alex Russell <alex@dojotoolkit.org>
- Arno Puder <arno@puder.org>
- Bjoern Mueller <Bjoern.Mueller@softwareag.com>
- Chris Schalk <chris.schalk@oracle.com>
- Coach Wei <coach@nexaweb.com>
- Craig McClanahan <craig.mcclanahan@sun.com>
- David Frankel <david.frankel@sap.com>
- David Temkin <temkin@laszlosystems.com>
- Eric Nguyen <ericn@mercedsystems.com>
- Gary Horen <ghoren@bea.com>
- Hyther Nizam <hyther@adventnet.com>
- Ian Wenig <ian@zoho.com>
- James Douma <jdouma@ebusiness-apps.com>
- Javier Gallego <Javier.Gallego@softwareag.com>
- Jennifer Taylor <jetaylor@adobe.com>
- Jeremy Chone <jchone@adobe.com>
- John Crupi <john.crupi@jackbe.com>
- Juan Dexeus <Juan.Dexeus@in2.es>
- Ken Fyten <ken.fyten@icesoft.com>
- Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Lindsey Simon <lsimon@finetooth.com>
- Luke Birdeau <lbirdeau@tibco.com>
- Michael Peachey <mpeachey@tibco.com>
- Raju Vegesna <raju@zoho.com>
- Ross Dargahi <ross.dargahi@zimbra.com>
- Ruben Daniels <ruben@javeline.nl>
- Steven Pothoven <pothoven@us.ibm.com>
- William Shulman <will@mercedsystems.com>
Agenda
Update on what happened at last week's Markup committee meeting
Full minutes: Markup Minutes 2006-06-29 Proposals discussed: Tibco_Dojo_Event_Hub_Proposal_2006-06-19 Alternate_Hub_Proposal_Using_XML_Namespaces James Margaris's proposed four requirements: Markup_Mixing_Requirements_From_Nexaweb Introduction to XAP: XAP_Executive_Summary Resolutions and Actions: RESOLUTION: There will be a single OpenAjax-blessed hub which is on top of OpenAjax-compatible toolkits RESOLUTION: We can use XML namespaces, but if we do, it has to work with HTML. RESOLUTION: Accept James's four candidate requirements RESOLUTION: Interop committee will focus on toolkit loading and event hub. Markup committee will focus on markup mixing. ACTION: Alex to prepare revisions of existing proposals, split into three separate documents on toolkit loading, mixing markup and event hub.
Jon assumes that it's a requirement that the hub be small and lightweight. Must be loaded first.
general agreement that xml namespaces was good practice, but XHTML must not be a requirement; we're doing HTML
markup committee proposal: interop focus on js-related items (tk loading, event hub), markup focus on angle bracket items (markup mixing)
seeking agreement from interop group
Kevin: how do we address javascript as pass-through? Collaboration and/or clarification may be req'd
Jon: split into focus areas? XHR/comm committee? DND committee?
Greg: hub is very helpful. need something which helps with load order of toolkits. also pub/sub
Jon: long-term, hub might grow in a modular manner. Toolkit loading hub, event hub, window management and layering hub, etc.
James: (agreed - mentions need for hub to help with layering and window management issues)
Kevin: does hub load toolkit, or does it just publish messages?
Discussion of whether toolkit might grow into a framework.
Adam: could limit hub to only what is needed to avoid interop problems, the rest can be only spec'd or delegated to tk vendors
Jon: To go further, hub itself can just be a spec and any toolkit can implement it; oaa doesn't have to be in the business of writing javascript
Jon: is oaa in the open source business or the spec business?
Status reports from Kin Blas, Alex Russell and Greg Murray on filling out Page_Processing_Model/Toolkit_Survey
Still work in progress. Adam volunteers to add documentation for Dojo. James for XAP
Discussion on multiple DOMs. XAL/XAP which has a separate tree acting as model (GI also) where Dojo morphs the main DOM tree.
Jon: must support the one DOM approach. must support two DOM approach also.
Kevin: tk impl single DOM, but can be mixed with dual-DOM tk. and vice-versa would also help adoption? (may/should). (Kevin says that GI uses a dual DOM approach.)
(Discussion about dangers with altering built-in objects such as what prototype.js does)
Volunteers to fill out Interoperability_State_of_the_World
Jon points at webpage
Greg: the prototype problem
(Time permitting) Continue work on Interoperability_Use_Cases_And_Requirements
Last week we left off without resolution about the following requirement. Note that we might be making progress on the XML syntax issue as we gravitate towards on OpenAjax hub: (1.3.2, first bullet) [?] At authortime, a developer MUST be able to describe instances of components from one or more toolkits using an XML syntax. (Does not mean widgets are available only via XML. Still can use without XML. Just means that an XML version alternative must be available to be OpenAjax compatible. Absolutely OK for each toolkit to define its own XML for its components. Needs to be well-formed XML, not constrained to XHTML-Strict.)
no time left in call
Next steps
ACTIONS
Jon will work with Alex for writeup for next meeting
All: Work on page processing document
James: has XML namespace proposal and markup mixing
