Interoperability Minutes 2006-06-21

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OpenAjax Alliance Interoperability Meeting 2006-06-21

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Attendees

  • Alex Russell <alex@dojotoolkit.org>
  • Adam Peller <apeller@us.ibm.com>
  • Bjoern Mueller <Bjoern.Mueller@softwareag.com>
  • Chris Schalk <chris.schalk@oracle.com>
  • Coach Wei <coach@nexaweb.com>
  • Craig McClanahan <craig.mcclanahan@sun.com>
  • David Frankel <david.frankel@sap.com>
  • Gary Horen <ghoren@bea.com>
  • Greg Murray <greg.murray@sun.com>
  • James Douma <jdouma@ebusiness-apps.com>
  • Jeremy Chone <jchone@adobe.com>
  • Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@us.ibm.com>
  • Ken Fyten <ken.fyten@icesoft.com>
  • Kevin Hakman <khakman@tibco.com>
  • Kin Blas <jblas@adobe.com>
  • Lindsey Simon <lsimon@finetooth.com>
  • Phil Berkland <berkland@us.ibm.com>
  • Rama Gurral from SAP (will be primary person going forward on Interop committee)
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Absent

  • Arno Puder <arno@puder.org>
  • Chris Matthews <cmatthews@elinkbiz.com>
  • David Temkin <temkin@laszlosystems.com>
  • Eddie O'Neil <ekoneil@bea.com>
  • Eric Nguyen <ericn@mercedsystems.com>
  • Ian Wenig <ian@adventnet.com>
  • Javier Gallego <Javier.Gallego@softwareag.com>
  • Jennifer Taylor <jetaylor@adobe.com>
  • John Crupi <john.crupi@jackbe.com>
  • John Janetos <jjanetos@laszlosystems.com>
  • Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
  • Luke Birdeau <lbirdeau@tibco.com>
  • Michael Peachey <mpeachey@tibco.com>
  • Rajo Vegesna <raju@adventnet.com>
  • Ross Dargahi <ross.dargahi@zimbra.com>
  • Rüdiger Herrmann <rherrmann@innoopract.de>
  • Ted Thibodeau <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>
  • William Shulman <will@mercedsystems.com>
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Agenda

  • Use Cases and Requirements
  • Tibco/Dojo Event Hub discussion document
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Topic: Use Cases and Requirements

Jon thanked the many people who contributed to the Use Cases and Requirements document over the past couple of weeks. Jeremy promised to complete his sections today

We only went through the following sections of Use Cases:

  • 1.3.2 Mixing toolkits within a top-level page description markup language (e.g., integrating widgets from Toolkit-A into TIBCO-GI or Backbase) (ACTION: Kevin)
  • 1.3.3 Integrating toolkits into AJAX IDEs (ACTION: Phil - 1st pass 6/20 )

After short discussion, we agreed with Phil's entries for 1.3.3 and removed the [?]s to indicate that we had discussed those items already. (Hooray!)

We then had a long discussion on the first bullet within 1.3.2. The bullet said: "[?] At authortime, a developer MUST be able to describe instances of components from one or more toolkits using an XML syntax.". The initial discussion was about what was meant by these words. As the discussion proceeded, Jon updated the page to include clarifications. One significant part of the discussion was whether there had to be XML syntax or whether it was OK that only JavaScript was used. Kevin pointed out that the section title was about using a top-level markup language, which restricts the scenario. There was discussion about whether Yahoo (and other toolkit) approaches of skeleton 'div' elements where metadata is defined in JavaScript and how that related to this requirement. There was reference to the Tibco/Dojo proposal which includes a markup approach for achieving interoperability. There was discussion about several toolkits which seem to have incompatible approaches with the requirement. We decided to give ourselves time and move on for now before attempting to attempting to finalize this particular bullet.

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Topic: Page Processing Model

Discussion on 1.3.2 slid into discussion about the need for a "standard page life cycle" model, which Jon called a "processing model", which at the end of the meeting was referred to as a "page processing model". We agreed to have volunteers write up the page processing models for some toolkits. Here are the volunteers:

Alex mentioned question of postbacks or standalone.


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Topic: Tibco/Dojo Event Hub discussion document

Kevin: Alex's previous proposal was well-received. Included discussion about a common event hub that operates independently of any particular toolkit. Which led to looking at a common way to handle toolkit loading and unloading/cleanup issues. That's focus of first half. Second half shows possible markup container approach. Goal is that OpenAjax should not be a closed system of markup. Instead, promotion of tag innovation is part of the OpenAjax culture. A common container provides common structure, but each toolkit handles its own markup.

Alex: Yes. The markup question is contentious per earlier discussion in this meeting. But the key thing is that the common container markup is just a passthrough facility.

Jon: I don't see a general event hub in this proposal. Only toolkit loading.

Alex: Yes, needs to be extended to talk about a general event hub

Kevin: It was in the earlier document from Alex. This document refers to the earlier document.

Bjoern: Seems mixed. Registration of toolkits and islands with HTML page. Maybe better to separate. Here is the section that loads toolkits. Here is the section that has the visual components.

Kevin: Script tag to load toolkits can be anywhere.

Bjoern: What is the purpose of oa-src?

Kevin: Good question. Optional feature for on-demand loading

Jon: I see it as a bell&whistle that isn't necessary

Kevin: Yes. Allows just-before automatic loading

Craig: Versioning of toolkits?

Jon: Good point. I will add versioning to requirements. (Done)

Greg: Does the proposal take into account document.write? Forces it to be a top-level library.

Alex: Dojo doesn't actually require doc.write. Could turn off dynamic inclusion after onload. Would be easy way out.

Jon: My instincts are that it is bad to have different rules for before load and after load.

Alex: Welcome the world of browsers.

Kin: After page load, I would like to programmatically create widgets. (Jon added this to the requirements document)

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Topic: Next steps

Jon: I don't think we can choose the event hub proposal as our starting point yet.

Alex: Needs further discussion.

Alex: Would be good to have a versioning system for uploading code. (Volunteers to help set it up.)

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ACTIONS:






Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@us.ibm.com> Web Architect, Emerging Technologies IBM, Menlo Park, CA Mobile: +1-650-464-7817

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