Accessibility Minutes 2009 04 08
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Contents |
Participants
- Ann Abbott (IBM)
- Jon Gunderson (University of Illinois)
- Nathan Jakubiak (ParaSoft)
- Vio Onut (IBM)
- Tony Salcedo (ParaSoft)
- Rich Schwerdtfeger (IBM - chair)
- David Todd (IBM)
Mininutes
Topic: David's WCAG2 action item to investigate table captions
Jon: expressed concern regarding screen readers voicing table captions as part of gridcell.
David: re-read technique regarding Captions
David: if not providing Captions, Caption element is not required - is that correct?
David: wondering if anyone else has another interpretation?
JonGunderson: orientation is required?
Rich: this is a technique - is it limited to data tables?
JonGund: repair oriented technique? Doesn't seem to require Caption? Ambiguous.
David: if using Caption, use caption element.
JonGund: caption is indisguishable from first data cell.
JonGund: problematic for screen reader users
Rich: sounds like if providing Caption, use caption element
JonGund: JAWS table navigation - does it read?
JonGund: requirement or nice to do?
David: if using caption on table, use caption element
Rich: test case?
Rich: caption may not make it into HTML 5
Rich: is test case a warning?
JonGund: not having a caption would be a warning
JonGund: summary should be required and we should develop rules.
JonGund: will this help group we're trying to help - PwD?
David: table caption not used a great deal - messes up layout
JonGund: can be hidden
Rich: detect data table, fire warning that a caption may be required?
Rich: if caption is provided, recommend using caption element
JonGund: is there another element? Labelby?
Rich: don't need special elements
JonGund: problem with caption needs to be communicated to AT vendors and needs to be fixed.
JonGund: caption is used so infrequently, ATs may not choose to fix
Rich: leave it off?
JonGund: can you bring this up with Freedom? Leave it in for now. Will create test pg and can provide to vendors
Rich: We have violation, potential violation and potential recommendation - what is the correct
JonGund: potential recommendation - if using caption, should use caption element
JonGund: how to test to know if using Caption?
Rich: how about aria-labeledby?
JonGund: what will AT vendors do with aria-labeledby
Rich: willing to get in front of ATs
JonGund: prefers labeledby for consistency
JonGund: labeledby has broader usage
David: table gets focus, summary gets read
Rich: in case of screen reader, doesn't automatically read description.
Rich: data table using captions (WCAG2 now) or data table using aria-labeledby?
Nathan: leaning toward aria-labeledby
Rich: let's stick with aria-labeledby due to problems with AT handling of captions
David: need to be backward compatible?
Rich: JAWS - not a problem. Cant speak for other AT vendors
Rich: Summary - must be associated with table. Generate potential violation.
David: violation instead of potential violation?
JonGund: Data Table Rules
Rich: if it is determined to be a data table, generate a violation when a table summary is not provided or aria-describedby
Topic Inner HTML/ Document.write
David: WCAG doesn't like it because of mime type
Rich: is this a violation for accessibility?
Rich: is this problem with XHTML only?
Rich: document.write can't be validated/parsed
Rich: unless mediat type is XHTML, leave it alone...
Nathan: flag as advisory but not sure it makes page inaccessible
David: is under Information Relationships/Technique A/programatically determinable
Vio: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/SCR21
Rich: This is one technique for meeting WCAG 2 but doesn't personally doesn't support - no basis on Accessibility - checkponts prior require semantics - take to WCAG 2 working group as it doesnt ensure semantic markup
Nathan: we have warning but has limited use
Rich: would have to mark live regions on this page.
JonGund: http://test.cita.illinois.edu/aria/live/index.php
JonGund: http://test.cita.illinois.edu/aria/alert/alert1.php
annabbott: Rich: this would be very noisey, you're right...
annabbott: Rich: if tied into browser and have updates on page - if area is in area in focus or captured by live region, we could flag warning which would be very verbose
JonGund: can't determine live region if not marked up unless something in a browser looking for content updates.
JonGund: does it generate dom mutation?
Rich: since test strategy, working with dynamic page, think aria should apply here
Rich: Will take up innerHTML and document.write() with the WCAG working group.