[OpenAjaxMobile] Minutes 2008-03-27

Jon Ferraiolo jferrai at us.ibm.com
Thu Mar 27 12:10:32 PDT 2008

Mobile Minutes 2008-03-27

URL: http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Minutes_2008-03-13

      Andrew Sledd, Ikivo (co-chair)
      Rick Saletta, Wavemaker
      Nikunj Mehta, Oracle
      Jon Ferraiolo, IBM
      Paddy Byers, Aplix


Mobile Device APIs Security

Jon: Paddy, I have now read your email about the strawman on security.
Everything in your email looks good to me.

Paddy: One question was about loading from other sites, such as when a web
site loads scripts from another site. One way to think about it is to treat
those scripts as coming from the original site.

Jon: Yes, that's the conventional way of treating this from a security

Paddy: But sometimes it is clear that there are separate and distinct
processes. We need a requirement that covers this but without being too

Jon: Mashups fit into what you are talking about. We are doing a lot of
things around mashups at OpenAjax.

Paddy: If in an IFRAME, maybe it is a separate agent or maybe referrer
needs to be relevant to the decision

Jon: I agree with identifying the issue but also not being too specific

Paddy: Also, I suggest that we generalize the API topic to actions

Jon: I agree with that. Also, need to study security literative and use
their terminology.

ACTION Jon: Make sure security page takes into account Paddy's paper and
all of the above discussion

White paper

Andy: Maybe we could review the white paper

Rick: It is close to being done.

Jon: In the past 12 hours, I did a full review and proposed what to do
about each open item.

Rick: I propose we remove the colored comments in the next week.

Jon: Let's go through the colored comments and see what people think, but
if there isn't too much, we should be just about ready to turn over to the
Marketing WG

Andy: Any open actions?

Jon: If people agree with my recommendations, then no.

First two sections of white paper, Intro and Characterizing...

Jon: I have proposed some editorial changes. People should review and speak
up now or send email later. Just editorial, so let's move to next section
unless someone speaks up.

Mobile Ajax in Practice

Jon: I have changed my mind because of release of the iPhone SDK, which has
videos that say "The iPhone will support SVG". That means that both of the
market leading mobile browsers will be shipping SVG support. Safari 3.1
supports static SVG and Apple is working on animated SVG. Opera has been
shipping complete SVG support for a couple of years. Therefore, OK to
include the Bundesliga example, but talk about it as a browser application
using the SVG support in the browser, not as an SVG application.

Rick: We had two problems originally with Bundesliga, being an SVG
application, and being vendor specific.

Jon: By vendor specific, do you mean Ikivo or Vodafone?

Rick: Vodafone. But that's OK with me. I agree that SVG now has larger
plausibility. (NOTE: not sure if notes said plausibility or something else,
but it was something in that direction)

Paddy: I think it is a good example.

Nikunj: It looks liek we have 2 examples that use SVG.

Jon: The train timetable doesn't use SVG.

Nikunj: OK, nevermind.

Andy: It uses an Opera widget.

Jon: Furthermore, I propose moving Bundesliga as the first example so we
have a browser example first and a widget example second. Also, I propose
adding a lead sentence that talks about the full web being available, but
here are two examples of mobile-specific customizations.

Rick: I'm not hearing any objections.

Jon: Going once, twice, ...

Challenges and Opportunities

Jon: This section is too small, we cover the material elsewhere, so I
propose removing title and two number items bullets

Nikunj: Disagree. Removing the section with harm the document. I think it
is important to remind the developer.

Paddy: But most of the topics are mentioned in later sections.

Jon: My thinking is that we should remove everything that is redundant with
the Tips section, which means removing this small bit.

Andy: I second that.

Nikunj: But we need a better abstract. The heading needs more text to give
people more context.

Jon: Are you volunteering to propose fixes?

Nikunj: Yes

Jon: When?

Nikunj: Today. And I'm fine with getting rid of the 2 numbered items.

ACTION Nikunj to improve earlier text to give people more context.

Mobile Opportunity

Jon: This section doesn't look redundant to me, so I would keep it.

Nikunj: I don't see any mention of 2D bar codes. It's becoming a big thing.
Not mentioned.

Jon: I agree about the 2D bar codes. Can you add text?

Nikunj: Yes

Jon: Along the same lines, should we mention Bluetooth? Available on
laptops too, but because phones are so portable, bluetooth is more useful

Andy: Yes, we should mention it

Jon: Any volunteers?

Paddy: I can do that. By end of the week.

ACTION Paddy to add text about bluetooth

Differences in UI

Jon: Everything here is also in the tips section, except fonts. Therefore,
I suggest removing it. Regarding fonts, in my experience, this isn't an
important issue. Web developers already have to use a small set of fonts to
achieve portability on desktop browsers, and mobile browsers generally
support that subset.

Nikunj: Isn't the question more about readability?

Jon: In my experience, phones have resolutions that are as high or higher
than desktop computers, so the fonts are as readable, of course no matter
how high the resolution, you can't focus on text that is too small.

Paddy: I agree that the differences are much less than before. Only thing
I'm not sure of is Asian fonts.

(someone): Not sure if scalable fonts are available for Asian markets.

Jon: My understanding from a couple of years ago is that there are multiple
font technology providers who ship fonts and products for the mobile Asian

Nikunj: We need clarification. There are important international

Paddy: Also, a similar issue for input methods. Maybe warrants a comment.

Jon: Similar issue on desktops.

Jon: Often there is inferior features on mobile.

Jon: Does Aplix have experience?

Paddy: Yes.

Jon: Can you add content about this?

Paddy: I was going to change the keypad section to be more generally about
text issues and talks about internationalization, Asian issues, and text
scaling issues

Nikunj/Jon: Sounds good

ACTION Paddy to update keypad section


Jon: Regarding Drucker paper, we have a reference at the bottom. I think
that's sufficient.

Rick/Paddy: Fine with us

Jon: Next colored comment is the LCD bullet. I suggest removing it.

Nikunj: I second that.

Jon: Next colored comment is about designing in an abstract way. I guessed
that this is about designing your web site for cross-device, cross-media
publishing, so I proposed new text that matches this.

Paddy: Looks good to me.

Jon: Next colored comment is the bullet "Recognize that legacy exists".
That's redundant with this section. I suggest removing it.

(no objections)


Jon: At bottom, I suggest removing the glossary.

Rick: I think it is important for reaching the broader market. I can easily
add links to wikipedia.

Paddy: Many of the items aren't about mobile.

Rick: The list of topics was done from a much earlier draft.

Jon: Maybe we can ask Rick to create an updated glossary after going
through the final doc.

Network communications

Nikunj: Network communications section isn't much help to developers. It
mainly just lists the problems. No good techniques are provided.

Jon: Any volunteers to help?

Nikunj: Yes

ACTION Nikunj to improve network communications section

Ajax and OpenAjax definitions

Jon: Anything else of the white paper?

Nikunj: Somewhere we say that OpenAjax has a mandate around native browser
features but we also say forward-looking things about Google Gears and
HTML5. Need to be clear about what we mean.

Jon: We do have a link to the white paper that defines Ajax and OpenAjax in
the references section.

Nikunj: But we need text or a link write in the text

Jon: OK, I'll take that action.

ACTION Jon to make sure there is text or reference to Ajax and OpenAjax

Next steps

      Everyone completes their actions by next phone call
      Rick can't work on white paper until next phone call, so let's do a
      quick review at next phone call (hopefully short), the document is
      closed to new content, and then Rick does a final editorial pass
      Then send to Marketing WG for publishing

Next week

Nikunj: Could there be an earlier announcement about agenda?

Jon: Let's spend as little time as possible on the white paper, and then
the rest of the time on Mobile Device APIs. I'll work with Andy and David
about what particular aspects of Mobile Device APIs we will talk about next
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