[OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

Bertrand Le Roy Bertrand.Le.Roy at microsoft.com
Tue Aug 25 12:16:15 PDT 2009


Nah. Don’t worry about us. We can take any date format. We even handle non-Gregorian calendars. YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss or anything along those lines will be a walk in the park.

From: ide-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:ide-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Kin Blas
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:23 AM
To: ide at openajax.org
Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

Although Jon’s proposed format is simple, it doesn’t cover the case where the widget expects an RFC 1123:

Mon, 25 Dec 1995 13:30:00 GMT
Mon, 25 Dec 1995 13:30:00 GMT+0430

I think the ASP.net calendar widget expects that format:

http://www.asp.net/AJAX/AjaxControlToolkit/Samples/Calendar/Calendar.aspx

That’s why I was suggesting something more along the lines of the PHP or Unix Date formatting set.

I’m not sure I like having a single attribute controlling both input and output.

--== Kin ==--

From: Scott Richards
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:46 AM
To: Jon Ferraiolo; Kin Blas
Cc: ide at openajax.org
Subject: RE: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

Thanks Jon for the proposal I like it.  With one minor change.

I think this attribute should also be used for formatting of the defaultValue. So, I would propose renaming it from “outputFormat” to “formatString” or something else appropriate since it will be used for input and output.

If you do not specify the “formatString” attribute I propose that the defaultValue would be formatted as “YYYY-MM-DD hh:mm:ss”

-Scott


From: ide-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:ide-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Jon Ferraiolo
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:25 AM
To: Kin Blas
Cc: ide at openajax.org
Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting


'outputFormat' is fine with me.

In an attempt to move the discussion forward, here is a proposal on the details.

We should define this attribute only for datatype="Date" at this time. For all other values for 'datatype', the attribute is ignored.

The processing model is that we assume the developer tool has a timezone aware date/time value in hand (for browser-based tools, this would be a JavaScript Date object). The 'outputFormat' attribute specifies the string representation of the date/time value when placed into the deployed HTML page, where the following substitutions happen:

every occurrence of YYYY gets replaced with the string representation of the year
every occurrence of MM gets replaced with the string representation of the month (1-12)
every occurrence of DD gets replaced with the string representation of the day (0-31)
every occurrence of hh gets replaced with the string representation of the hour (0-23)
every occurrence of mm gets replaced with the string representation of the minute (0-59)
every occurrence of ss gets replaced with the string representation of the second (0-59)
every occurrence of ms gets replaced with the string representation of the millisecond (0-999)
all other characters from the outputFormat string are copied into the result string

To illustrate,
* If outputFormat="YYYYMMDD" and the date value is March 15, 2009, then the generated string would be "20091503"
* If outputFormat="YYYY-MM-DD" and the date value is March 15, 2009, then the generated string would be "2009-15-03"
* If outputFormat="YYYY/MM/DD" and the date value is March 15, 2009, then the generated string would be "2009/15/03"
* If outputFormat="hello", then the generated string would be "hello" (no substitution matches)

Developer tools must put leading zeroes on values. Therefore, March must be '03' and not '3'.

However, we need to address timezones to address the question of whether the generated value supposed to be in the UTC timezone or the local timezone. I would propose we assume the local timezone. If someone needs UTC or other timezones, then they will have to resort to JavaScript.

Jon




[Inactive hide details for Kin Blas ---08/24/2009 05:24:12 PM---Regarding #2, I don’t like the idea of introducing an attribute]Kin Blas ---08/24/2009 05:24:12 PM---Regarding #2, I don’t like the idea of introducing an attribute for every datatype/format combo. We

From:


Kin Blas <jblas at adobe.com>


To:


"ide at openajax.org" <ide at openajax.org>


Date:


08/24/2009 05:24 PM


Subject:


Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting


Sent by:


ide-bounces at openajax.org

________________________________



Regarding #2, I don’t like the idea of introducing an attribute for every datatype/format combo. We should just have one attribute, perhaps “outputFormat”, named generically on purpose, and just document what datatype/format are allowed to use it, and what the expected values for that attribute are for the various datatype/format combos that support it. In hindsight, we really should have named the @format something different since its purpose is to  hint the type of control to use to gather its value … it’s more of a UI display hint instead of a format.

We don’t have to support an output format for *every* dataType right off the bat, but we do definitely need something for Dates since there are a multitude of representations for it.

--== Kin ==--

From: ide-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:ide-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Jon Ferraiolo
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 4:36 PM
To: Scott Richards
Cc: ide at openajax.org
Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

Hi Scott,
Good email! Thanks!

I'll comment on two parts of your email:

(1) Scott says: selected: new Date(2009,0,31)...Are others writing out the Javascript Date constructor in this scenario?
Response: It probably depends whether the tool runs in the browser or not. Dreamweaver is its own executable, and generates the HTML file via fprintf (or equivalent), so the above logic makes sense. However, if your have a runt-ime tool such as a mashup builder, then you very well might call the YUI constructor functions directly from the tool, and therefore you might have a Date object in hand.

(2) Scott says: I like the name ‘dateFormat’ Jon proposed, but would this mean we would have a different ‘timeFormat’ and ‘timestampFormat’?
Response: Yes, I did in fact propose 'dateFormat', and that would indeed imply that if we needed formatting for other datatypes (now or in the future), then we would need multiple new attributes, such as 'timeFormat', 'timestampFormat', 'numberFormat', and maybe 'currencyFormat' or 'addressFormat' down the road. We could also a single attribute that supports different formatting substitution syntaxes based on the values of either 'datatype' or 'format'.

This all points out the slippery slope that we are on. If we support declarative formatting for dates, then why not for other datatypes?

Jon



[Inactive hide details for Scott Richards ---08/20/2009 04:09:47 PM---Jon you make a good point about the need to separate out t]Scott Richards ---08/20/2009 04:09:47 PM---Jon you make a good point about the need to separate out the attributes format = is the clue for wha

From:


Scott Richards <scrichar at adobe.com>


To:


Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM at IBMUS, "ide at openajax.org" <ide at openajax.org>


Date:


08/20/2009 04:09 PM


Subject:


RE: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

________________________________




Jon you make a good point about the need to separate out the attributes format = is the clue for what UI control the IDE should display for the end user to configure that property and the

I can understand if everyone does not want to take the extra effort to support flexibility in supporting different date formats, or wants to defer on this till the 2.0 version of the spec. But we would like to provide this capability now even if it does not make it into the 1.0 spec. So we would like to come up with a proposal that will hopefully be accepted if not now in the next spec.. Minimally the spec needs to state what the format will be when the user specifies format=”date”, format=”time”, and format=”timestamp”. Currently it is unclear now what this property will write out when it does the substitution and what the expected format of the defaultValue should be.

At Adobe currently we are always outputting a Javascript Date Constructor. And we are expecting the defaultValue to be formatted as MM/DD/YYYY. We are not differentiating between format=”date” and format=”string”

So if you specify this in the oam.xml file

<javascript>
var cal1 = new YAHOO.widget.Calendar("cal1","cal1Container",{ selected: @@selectDate@@ });
</javascript>

<property name=”selectedDate” datatype=”date” defaultValue=”1/31/2009” />


We display a date picker control that defaults to January 31 2009, and we would write out the following to the code if the user did not select a different date then the default one.
var cal1 = new YAHOO.widget.Calendar("cal1","cal1Container",{ selected: new Date(2009,0,31)});

Are others writing out the Javascript Date constructor in this scenario? How are people handling defaultValue for format=”date”? Are others behaving differently if the format=”string” versus format=”date”?

We should be consistent between the format of the defaultValue and the value we output. And we want to enable at least some limited options in the format other than the Javascript Date constructor. It seems odd to me to specify defaultValues in the oam.xml file as Javascript Date constructors (with January = 0).

We do not have a time control so we have not dealt with that case yet.

I like the name ‘dateFormat’ Jon proposed, but would this mean we would have a different ‘timeFormat’ and ‘timestampFormat’?

To keep this simple and but provide a little bit of flexibility and to go with an accepted standard I think the formats specified in ISO8601 below would be better than all of the formats that php supports.

YYYY = four-digit year
MM = two-digit month (01=January, etc.)
DD = two-digit day of month (01 through 31)
hh = two digits of hour (00 through 23) (am/pm NOT allowed)
mm = two digits of minute (00 through 59)
ss = two digits of second (00 through 59)

Also, Steve it would be great if you could share your code with the group

-Scott

From: ide-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:ide-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Jon Ferraiolo
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:56 AM
To: ide at openajax.org
Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

If we add another attribute, its name should reflect that the attribute only applies to formatting dates versus other datatypes. Therefore, instead of 'formatString', the attribute should be named something like 'formatDate', 'dateFormat' or 'dateResultFormat'. (The latter one is long, but re-inforces that we are formatting on the property editor result rather than the input value that is given the property editor.)

But like Adam I would like to see side-by-side comparisons of how the OAM file would look if we added a new attribute versus pushing this feature into something that has to be done via JavaScript. I'll take a crack at it.

With a 'dateResultFormat' attribute:

<property name='mindate' datatype='String' format='date' dateResultFormat='MM/DD/YYYY'/>
<javascript location="afterContent">
var calwidget = new YAHOO.whatever.calendar({...mindate:@@mindate@@...});
</javascript>

Without a 'dateResultFormat' attribute:

<property name='mindate' datatype='Date' format='date'/>
<javascript location="afterContent">
var mdate = @@mindate@@;
var mdate_string = mdate.getMonth()+"/"+mdate.getDay()+"/"+mdate.getFullYear();
var calwidget = new YAHOO.whatever.calendar({...mindate:mdate_string...});
</javascript>

Jon



[Inactive hide details for Lori Hylan-Cho ---08/19/2009 10:41:14 PM---I agree with Kin that we shouldn't make widget developers]Lori Hylan-Cho ---08/19/2009 10:41:14 PM---I agree with Kin that we shouldn't make widget developers (or oam.xml file writers, who may not be

From:


Lori Hylan-Cho <avocadoh at gmail.com>


To:


Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM at IBMUS


Cc:


Kin Blas <jblas at adobe.com>, "ide at openajax.org" <ide at openajax.org>


Date:


08/19/2009 10:41 PM


Subject:


Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

________________________________





I agree with Kin that we shouldn't make widget developers (or oam.xml file writers, who may not be the same people) write extra JS when we can include a declarative format in the spec.

I agree with Jon and Scott that a separate attribute for the format string should be used for the reason Jon outlined.

As regards encouraging bad coding practices, I'd rather recognize reality and give dev tools a chance to support it than try to get everyone to conform to an ideal.

Lori

[brevity brought to you by iPhone.]

On Aug 19, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai at us.ibm.com<mailto:jferrai at us.ibm.com>> wrote:
After thinking about things, I don't like either of the following:

format="d/m/Y"

or

format="date(d/m/Y)"

The 'format' attribute tells the tool what type of special editor to display within the property editor in order for the user to enter a value. For example, a tool might provide a calendar widget to edit a property that has format="date", a clock dial widget to edit a property that has format="time", and a color picker widget to edit a property that has format="color". I don't think we want to try to co-mingle the formatting instructions into the same attribute that provides a hint about which editor widget to use within the property editor UI.

If we are going to offer date formatting, I think an additional attribute such as what Scott has proposed is the way to go.

Regarding whether we should include this feature or not, I won't object if the majority think this is a necessary feature for version 1.0, but at the moment I'm not sold that this is an appropriate feature for the spec. Two things worry me:

(1) So far, I haven't seen any JavaScript-free OAM files for OAM files that wrap widgets from Ajax toolkits. If OAM authors need to resort to JavaScript anyway, then for the YUI calendar widget (and similar calendar widgets), the widget developer working on the calendar widget can figure out how to format the date values (perhaps by including Steve's 40 lines of JavaScript within that particular widget)

(2) I'm not sure that it is compelling easier for a widget developer to discover and learn how to use the 'formatString' attribute versus writing a little JavaScript to create the appropriate string before calling the constructor.

But nevertheless, if the majority want this feature, I'm OK with adding it as Scott proposes below.

Jon


<graycol.gif>Kin Blas ---08/19/2009 03:21:31 PM---For the datatype="Date" there are 2 supported format values, "date" and "time": <property name="myDa
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Kin Blas <jblas at adobe.com<mailto:jblas at adobe.com>>

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08/19/2009 03:21 PM

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Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

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Sent by:

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ide-bounces at openajax.org<mailto:ide-bounces at openajax.org>

________________________________





For the datatype=”Date” there are 2 supported format values, “date” and “time”:

<property name=”myDate” datatype=”Date” format=”date” />
<property name=”myTime” datatype=”Date” format=”time” />

Rather than introducing another attribute, as proposed in Scott’s example. Why not just leverage the existing @format attribute in conjunction with the variables used by PHP:

http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.date.php

The current proposed values for the Date @format aren’t that useful in my opinion. So I envision something like:

<property name=”myDate” datatype=”Date” format=”d/m/Y” />
<property name=”myTime” datatype=”Date” format=”g:i:s” />

Regarding Jon’s comment about being able to work around this problem with additional code added to the <javascript> or <content> sections … I really feel that if we want this OAM format to be adopted by the various frameworks and the industry, that we need to make it drop-dead simple for them to support their formats/patterns so they don’t have to resort to writing extra-glue code to make up for our in-flexibility.

--== Kin ==--

From: ide-bounces at openajax.org<mailto:ide-bounces at openajax.org> [mailto:ide-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Scott Richards
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:00 PM
To: Steve Repetti; 'Jon Ferraiolo'; ide at openajax.org<mailto:ide at openajax.org>
Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

I think a lightweight solution that supports a very small set of legacy formats would be all we need. Sounds like Steve’s 40+ lines of DateFormat code could handle this.

I like a simple approach of adding an additional formatString=”” attribute or maybe call it formatPattern that enables you to format in the value that is replaced using the @@variableName@@ notation in either the <javascript> or <content> sections. Here is an example.

<property datatype=”date” format=”date” formatString=”YYYY-MM-DD” />

where:
YYYY = four-digit year
MM = two-digit month (01=January, etc.)
DD = two-digit day of month (01 through 31)
hh = two digits of hour (00 through 23) (am/pm NOT allowed)
mm = two digits of minute (00 through 59)
ss = two digits of second (00 through 59)



The formats from YUI Calendar takes Javascript Date Object or a string formatted as “mm/yyyy” and “mm/dd/yyyy”. The selected property can only be specified with a string not a Javascript date object and it does not support ISO 8601 format. See this link

http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/calendar/#config

Here is an example of how we could support YUI Calendar date strings using formatString.


var cal1 = new YAHOO.widget.Calendar("cal1",
"cal1Container",
{ pagedate:"5/2007",
selected:"5/5/2007-5/27/2007" });

This would look like the following in the oam.xml file:
<javascript>
var cal1 = new YAHOO.widget.Calendar("cal1",
"cal1Container",
{ pagedate:"@@pageDate@@",
selected:"@@selectDateStart@@-@@selectDateEnd@@" });
</javascript>

<property name=”pageDate” datatype=”date” format=”date” formatString=”MM/YYYY” />
<property name=” selectDateStart” datatype=”date” format=”date” formatString=”MM/DD/YYYY” />
<property name=” selectDateEnd” datatype=”date” format=”date” formatString=”MM/DD/YYYY” />


Not sure if we should support dropping out leading 0’s, do we need to support this? We could do with just M or D. But the YUI calendar works specifying dates with or without leading 0’s. So this may be unnecessary.



Here is the link for jQuery Date formats. They support multiple formats including iso 8601. So with could support it as follows:
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