[OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

Jon Ferraiolo jferrai at us.ibm.com
Thu Aug 20 16:35:55 PDT 2009


Hi Scott,
Good email! Thanks!

I'll comment on two parts of your email:

(1) Scott says: selected: new Date(2009,0,31)...Are others writing out the
Javascript Date constructor in this scenario?
Response: It probably depends whether the tool runs in the browser or not.
Dreamweaver is its own executable, and generates the HTML file via fprintf
(or equivalent), so the above logic makes sense. However, if your have a
runt-ime tool such as a mashup builder, then you very well might call the
YUI constructor functions directly from the tool, and therefore you might
have a Date object in hand.

(2) Scott says: I like the name ‘dateFormat’ Jon proposed, but would this
mean we would have a different ‘timeFormat’ and ‘timestampFormat’?
Response: Yes, I did in fact propose 'dateFormat', and that would indeed
imply that if we needed formatting for other datatypes (now or in the
future), then we would need multiple new attributes, such as 'timeFormat',
'timestampFormat', 'numberFormat', and maybe 'currencyFormat' or
'addressFormat' down the road. We could also a single attribute that
supports different formatting substitution syntaxes based on the values of
either 'datatype' or 'format'.

This all points out the slippery slope that we are on. If we support
declarative formatting for dates, then why not for other datatypes?

Jon




                                                                                                       
  From:       Scott Richards <scrichar at adobe.com>                                                      
                                                                                                       
  To:         Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM at IBMUS, "ide at openajax.org" <ide at openajax.org>                
                                                                                                       
  Date:       08/20/2009 04:09 PM                                                                      
                                                                                                       
  Subject:    RE: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting                                                        
                                                                                                       





Jon you make a good point about the need to separate out the attributes
format = is the clue for what UI control the IDE should display for the end
user to configure that property and the

I can understand if everyone does not want to take the extra effort to
support flexibility in supporting different date formats, or wants to defer
on this till the 2.0 version of the spec.  But we would like to provide
this capability now even if it does not make it into the 1.0 spec. So we
would like to come up with a proposal that will hopefully be accepted if
not now in the next spec..  Minimally the spec needs to state what the
format will be when the user specifies format=”date”, format=”time”, and
format=”timestamp”. Currently it is unclear now what this property will
write out when it does the substitution and what the expected format of the
defaultValue should be.

At Adobe currently we are always outputting a Javascript Date Constructor.
And we are expecting the defaultValue to be formatted as MM/DD/YYYY. We are
not differentiating between format=”date” and format=”string”

So if you specify this in the oam.xml file

<javascript>
            var cal1 = new YAHOO.widget.Calendar
            ("cal1","cal1Container",{ selected: @@selectDate@@ });
</javascript>

<property name=”selectedDate” datatype=”date” defaultValue=”1/31/2009” />);


We display a date picker control that defaults to January 31 2009, and we
would write out the following to the code if the user did not select a
different date then the default one.

            var cal1 = new YAHOO.widget.Calendar
            ("cal1","cal1Container",{ selected: new Date(2009,0,31)});

Are others writing out the Javascript Date constructor in this scenario?
How are people handling defaultValue for format=”date”?  Are others
behaving differently if the format=”string” versus format=”date”?

We should be consistent between the format of the defaultValue and the
value we output.  And we want to enable at least some limited options in
the format other than the Javascript Date constructor.  It seems odd to me
to specify defaultValues in the oam.xml file as Javascript Date
constructors (with January = 0).

We do not have a time control so we have not dealt with that case yet.

I like the name ‘dateFormat’ Jon proposed, but would this mean we would
have a different ‘timeFormat’ and ‘timestampFormat’?

To keep this simple and but provide a little bit of flexibility and to go
with an accepted standard I think the formats specified in ISO8601 below
would be better than all of the formats that php supports.

YYYY = four-digit year
MM = two-digit month (01=January, etc.)
DD = two-digit day of month (01 through 31)
hh = two digits of hour (00 through 23) (am/pm NOT allowed)
mm = two digits of minute (00 through 59)
ss = two digits of second (00 through 59)

Also, Steve it would be great if you could share your code with the group

-Scott

From: ide-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:ide-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf
Of Jon Ferraiolo
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:56 AM
To: ide at openajax.org
Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting



If we add another attribute, its name should reflect that the attribute
only applies to formatting dates versus other datatypes. Therefore, instead
of 'formatString', the attribute should be named something like
'formatDate', 'dateFormat' or 'dateResultFormat'. (The latter one is long,
but re-inforces that we are formatting on the property editor result rather
than the input value that is given the property editor.)

But like Adam I would like to see side-by-side comparisons of how the OAM
file would look if we added a new attribute versus pushing this feature
into something that has to be done via JavaScript. I'll take a crack at it.


With a 'dateResultFormat' attribute:

<property name='mindate' datatype='String' format='date'
dateResultFormat='MM/DD/YYYY'/>
<javascript location="afterContent">
var calwidget = new YAHOO.whatever.calendar({...mindate:@@mindate@@...});
</javascript>

Without a 'dateResultFormat' attribute:

<property name='mindate' datatype='Date' format='date'/>
<javascript location="afterContent">
var mdate = @@mindate@@;
var mdate_string = mdate.getMonth()+"/"+mdate.getDay
()+"/"+mdate.getFullYear();
var calwidget = new YAHOO.whatever.calendar({...mindate:mdate_string...});
</javascript>

Jon



Inactive hide details for Lori Hylan-Cho ---08/19/2009 10:41:14 PM---I
agree with Kin that we shouldn't make widget developers Lori Hylan-Cho
---08/19/2009 10:41:14 PM---I agree with Kin that we shouldn't make widget
developers (or oam.xml file writers, who may not be


                                                                           
                                                                           
 From:          Lori Hylan-Cho <avocadoh at gmail.com>                        
                                                                           
                                                                           
 To:            Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM at IBMUS,                        
                                                                           
                                                                           
 Cc:            Kin Blas <jblas at adobe.com>, "ide at openajax.org"             
                <ide at openajax.org>                                         
                                                                           
                                                                           
 Date:          08/19/2009 10:41 PM                                        
                                                                           
                                                                           
 Subject:       Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting                          
                                                                           






I agree with Kin that we shouldn't make widget developers (or oam.xml file
writers, who may not be the same people) write extra JS when we can include
a declarative format in the spec.

I agree with Jon and Scott that a separate attribute for the format string
should be used for the reason Jon outlined.

As regards encouraging bad coding practices, I'd rather recognize reality
and give dev tools a chance to support it than try to get everyone to
conform to an ideal.

Lori

[brevity brought to you by iPhone.]

On Aug 19, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai at us.ibm.com> wrote:
            After thinking about things, I don't like either of the
            following:

            format="d/m/Y"

            or

            format="date(d/m/Y)"

            The 'format' attribute tells the tool what type of special
            editor to display within the property editor in order for the
            user to enter a value. For example, a tool might provide a
            calendar widget to edit a property that has format="date", a
            clock dial widget to edit a property that has format="time",
            and a color picker widget to edit a property that has
            format="color". I don't think we want to try to co-mingle the
            formatting instructions into the same attribute that provides a
            hint about which editor widget to use within the property
            editor UI.

            If we are going to offer date formatting, I think an additional
            attribute such as what Scott has proposed is the way to go.

            Regarding whether we should include this feature or not, I
            won't object if the majority think this is a necessary feature
            for version 1.0, but at the moment I'm not sold that this is an
            appropriate feature for the spec. Two things worry me:

            (1) So far, I haven't seen any JavaScript-free OAM files for
            OAM files that wrap widgets from Ajax toolkits. If OAM authors
            need to resort to JavaScript anyway, then for the YUI calendar
            widget (and similar calendar widgets), the widget developer
            working on the calendar widget can figure out how to format the
            date values (perhaps by including Steve's 40 lines of
            JavaScript within that particular widget)

            (2) I'm not sure that it is compelling easier for a widget
            developer to discover and learn how to use the 'formatString'
            attribute versus writing a little JavaScript to create the
            appropriate string before calling the constructor.

            But nevertheless, if the majority want this feature, I'm OK
            with adding it as Scott proposes below.

            Jon


            <graycol.gif>Kin Blas ---08/19/2009 03:21:31 PM---For the
            datatype="Date" there are 2 supported format values, "date" and
            "time": <property name="myDa


                                                                           
 <ecblank.gif>        <ecblank.gif>                                        
 From:                Kin Blas <jblas at adobe.com>                           
                                                                           
 <ecblank.gif>        <ecblank.gif>                                        
 To:                  "ナide at openajax.org" <ide at openajax.org>               
                                                                           
 <ecblank.gif>        <ecblank.gif>                                        
 Date:                08/19/2009 03:21 PM                                  
                                                                           
 <ecblank.gif>        <ecblank.gif>                                        
 Subject:             Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting                    
                                                                           
 <ecblank.gif>        <ecblank.gif>                                        
 Sent by:             ide-bounces at openajax.org                             
                                                                           






            For the datatype=”Date” there are 2 supported format values,
            “date” and “time”:

            <property name=”myDate” datatype=”Date” format=”date” />
            <property name=”myTime” datatype=”Date” format=”time” />

            Rather than introducing another attribute, as proposed in
            Scott’s example. Why not just leverage the existing @format
            attribute in conjunction with the variables used by PHP:

            http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.date.php.

            The current proposed values for the Date @format aren’t that
            useful in my opinion. So I envision something like:

            <property name=”myDate” datatype=”Date” format=”d/m/Y” />
            <property name=”myTime” datatype=”Date” format=”g:i:s” />

            Regarding Jon’s comment about being able to work around this
            problem with additional code added to the <javascript> or
            <content> sections … I really feel that if we want this OAM
            format to be adopted by the various frameworks and the
            industry, that we need to make it drop-dead simple for them to
            support their formats/patterns so they don’t have to resort to
            writing extra-glue code to make up for our in-flexibility.

            --== Kin ==--

            From: ide-bounces at openajax.org [
            mailto:ide-bounces at openajax.org.] On Behalf Of Scott Richards
            Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:00 PM
            To: Steve Repetti; 'Jon Ferraiolo'; ide at openajax.org
            Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxIDE] date formatting

            I think a lightweight solution that supports a very small set
            of legacy formats would be all we need. Sounds like Steve’s 40+
            lines of DateFormat code could handle this.

            I like a simple approach of adding an additional formatString
            =”” attribute or maybe call it formatPattern that enables you
            to format in the value that is replaced using the
            @@variableName@@ notation in either the <javascript> or
            <content> sections. Here is an example.

            <property datatype=”date” format=”date”
            formatString=”YYYY-MM-DD” />


            where:
            YYYY = four-digit year
            MM = two-digit month (01=January, etc.)
            DD = two-digit day of month (01 through 31)
            hh = two digits of hour (00 through 23) (am/pm NOT allowed)
            mm = two digits of minute (00 through 59)
            ss = two digits of second (00 through 59)



            The formats from YUI Calendar takes Javascript Date Object or a
            string formatted as “mm/yyyy” and “mm/dd/yyyy”. The selected
            property can only be specified with a string not a Javascript
            date object and it does not support ISO 8601 format. See this
            link

            http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/calendar/#config

            Here is an example of how we could support YUI Calendar date
            strings using formatString.


            var cal1 = new YAHOO.widget.Calendar("cal1",
            "cal1Container",
            { pagedate:"5/2007",
            selected:"5/5/2007-5/27/2007" });

            This would look like the following in the oam.xml file:
                                    <javascript>
            var cal1 = new YAHOO.widget.Calendar("cal1",
            "cal1Container",
            { pagedate:"@@pageDate@@",
            selected:"@@selectDateStart@@-@@selectDateEnd@@" });
                                    </javascript>

                                    <property name=”pageDate”
                                    datatype=”date” format=”date”
                                    formatString=”MM/YYYY” />
                                    <property name=” selectDateStart”
                                    datatype=”date” format=”date”
                                    formatString=”MM/DD/YYYY” />
                                    <property name=”” selectDateEnd”
                                    datatype=”date” format=”date”
                                    formatString=”MM/DD/YYYY” />


            Not sure if we should support dropping out leading 0’s, do we
            need to support this? We could do with just M or D. But the YUI
            calendar works specifying dates with or without leading 0’s. So
            this may be unnecessary.



            Here is the link for jQuery Date formats. They support multiple
            formats including iso 8601. So with could support it as
            follows:
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