[OpenAjaxGadgets] Minutes 2009-04-20

Rich Thompson richt2 at us.ibm.com
Mon Apr 27 05:55:23 PDT 2009


I would disagree that the widget developer is limiting the application 
developer who is putting a page together. Rather this gives a means of 
providing semantic information that the associated properties CAN be 
linked (i.e. there is a semantic match). Whether or not other properties, 
potentially from unknown widgets, are also a semantic match (and thereby 
candidates for sharing) is not specified.

That said, "sharedAs" does sound like a reasonable name ...

Rich 



From:
Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM
To:
Howard Weingram <weingram at tibco.com>
Cc:
gadgets at openajax.org, Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM at IBMUS
Date:
04/22/2009 02:47 PM
Subject:
Re: [OpenAjaxGadgets] Minutes 2009-04-20


At the phone call, we talked about "sharedName". Among all of the options 
listed so far, I like "sharedAs" the best.

Jon






Howard Weingram <weingram at tibco.com> 
04/22/2009 10:31 AM

To
Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM at IBMUS, Rich Thompson/Watson/IBM at IBMUS
cc
<gadgets at openajax.org>
Subject
Re: [OpenAjaxGadgets] Minutes 2009-04-20






I agree with Jon.

The name we're talking about uniquely names an association between
properties exposed by different widgets (without requiring specifying
implementation details or hub topics). The widget developer is giving an
instruction that this property should ONLY be linked with widget 
properties
that share this association.

That's not at all the same thing as an alias.

sharedProp
sharingName
sharedAs
linkName

are some possibilities.

Regards,
Howard

On 4/22/09 8:36 AM, "Jon Ferraiolo" <jferrai at us.ibm.com> wrote:

> 
> In this particular case, I'm not in love with "alias". The semantics in
> this case isn't an alternative to the 'name' attribute, but instead more 
of
> the alternative "sharing name" or "public name" for when a single 
property
> is shared among multiple widgets.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> 
> 
>              Rich
>              Thompson/Watson/I
>              BM at IBMUS To
>              Sent by:                  gadgets at openajax.org
>              gadgets-bounces at o cc
>              penajax.org
> Subject
>                                        Re: [OpenAjaxGadgets] Minutes
>              04/22/2009 06:44          2009-04-20
>              AM 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Issue #3, a name used by other specs is 'alias'. The key is semantic
> match even if the name differs.
> 
> Rich
> 
> 
>  From:         Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM at IBMUS
> 
>  To:           gadgets at openajax.org
> 
>  Date:         04/21/2009 06:44 PM
> 
>  Subject:      [OpenAjaxGadgets] Minutes 2009-04-20
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gadgets Minutes 2009-04-20
> 
> 
> URL: http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Gadgets_Minutes_2009-04-20
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Attendees
>       Jon Ferraiolo, IBM
>       Eduardo Abe, IBM/ILOG
>       Stew Nickolas, IBM
>       Javier Pedemonte, IBM
>       Rich Thompson, IBM
>       Howard Weingram, TIBCO
> 
> Original Agenda
>       Issue 1: Rename 'default' to 'defaultvalue'?
>             Howard:
>             http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000205.html
>             Jon:
>             http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000207.html
>             Issue 2: Request a widget mode
>                   Howard asks about having a getMode() API
>                   Question is how does a widget know what mode it is in
>                   when first rendered. Should onModeChanged event be 
sent
>                   right after onLoad?
>                   What is order of events: widget loaded and ready to be
>                   initialized (onLoad?), queued events, widget ready for
>                   rendering (onModeChanged?)
>                   What about 'renderedBy'?
>                   New API requestMode()?
>                   On first onModeChanged, what is value for oldMode?
>                   Howard:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000190.html
> 
>                   Howard:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000193.html
> 
>                   Jon:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000199.html
> 
>                   Howard:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000200.html
> 
>                   Rich:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000208.html
> 
>                   Howard:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000210.html
> 
>                   Jon:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000211.html
> 
>                   Howard:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000215.html
> 
>                   Rich:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000218.html
> 
>                   Jon:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000219.html
> 
>                   Rich:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000220.html
> 
>                   Howard:
>                   
http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000222.html
> 
>                   Issue 3: Remove 'topic' attribute from <property> 
element
>                         Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000206.html
> 
>                         Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000212.html
> 
>                         Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000216.html
> 
>                         Rich:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000221.html
> 
>                         Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000217.html
> 
>                         Issue 4: Property onChange notification events
>                               Widget see its own property changes?
>                               Proposal: no
>                               Dependencies between Widget and Hub specs?
>                               Proposal: property system not dependent on
>                               Hub, but event system requires support for
>                               Hub APIs. "The hub sub-object MUST 
implement
>                               the HubClient interface and semantics 
defined
>                               in the OpenAjax 2.0 specification."
>                               Namespacing events? Proposal is refer to 
Hub
>                               spec best practices
>                               Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000165.html
> 
>                               Rich:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000166.html
> 
>                               Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000169.html
> 
>                               Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000170.html
> 
>                               Javier:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000167.html
> 
>                               Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000168.html
> 
>                               Rich:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000171.html
> 
>                               Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000172.html
> 
>                               Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000174.html
> 
>                               Javier:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000179.html
> 
>                               Rich:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000173.html
> 
>                               Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000181.html
> 
>                               Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000182.html
> 
>                               Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000183.html
> 
>                               Issue 5: questions about "topic" 
sub-elements
>                                     Need to clean up schema and spec
>                                     relative to PARAMETER, RETURNTYPE 
and
>                                     PROPERTY children of TOPIC
>                                     RESOLVED IN EMAIL?
>                                     Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000175.html
> 
>                                     Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000186.html
> 
>                                     Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000187.html
> 
>                                     Issue 6: type checking inbound 
messages
>                                     & data being stored
>                                           RESOLVED IN EMAIL?
>                                           Responsibility of widget to
>                                           verify correctness of incoming
>                                           messages
>                                           Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000176.html
> 
>                                           Rich:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000177.html
> 
>                                           Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000178.html
> 
>                                           Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000185.html
> 
>                                           Issue 7: widget onUnload vs
>                                           onShutdown
>                                                 unload and shutdown the
>                                                 same thing?
>                                                 Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000191.html
> 
>                                                 Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000197.html
> 
>                                                 Issue 8: sizeChanged 
event
>                                                 questions
>                                                       RESOLVED IN EMAIL?
>                                                       (inner boundaries)
>                                                       Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000192.html
> 
>                                                       Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000198.html
> 
>                                                       Issue 9: Does
>                                                       JAVASCRIPT need a
>                                                       mode attribute?
>                                                             Howard:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000194.html
> 
>                                                             Jon:
> 
> http://openajax.org/pipermail/gadgets/2009-April/000203.html
> 
> 
>                                                       Minutes
> 
>                                                       Issue 1: Rename
>                                                       'default' to
>                                                       'defaultvalue'?
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: Kin accepted
>                                                       this meeting, so
>                                                       let's wait for him 
to
>                                                       arrive before 
talking
>                                                       about this
> 
> 
>                                                       Issue 2: Request a
>                                                       widget mode
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: getMode()
>                                                       resolved in email?
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: Add
>                                                       getMode() API
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: What about
>                                                       requestMode()?
> 
> 
>                                                       Stew: We already 
have
>                                                       requestDimensions. 
Up
>                                                       to the container. 
If
>                                                       honored, you get a
>                                                       modeChanged event.
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: Yes, 
that's
>                                                       good.
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: Add
>                                                       requestMode() API
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: Howard 
already
>                                                       put getMode() and
>                                                       requestMode() into
>                                                       the open source 
and
>                                                       into the spec
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: Why a 3rd
>                                                       step, constructor,
>                                                       onLoad, and then
>                                                       modeChanged?
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: Constructor
>                                                       isn't really a 
step.
>                                                       Simple creation of 
a
>                                                       JavaScript object.
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: What about
>                                                       Rich's note about
>                                                       queued events?
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: There 
could
>                                                       be lots of stuff 
that
>                                                       happens on 
bootstrap.
>                                                       I don't want to do
>                                                       queued events. Not
>                                                       with Hub 2.0, 
which
>                                                       doesn't have such 
a
>                                                       feature. Could 
have a
>                                                       lot of 
complexities.
>                                                       Question: when is 
a
>                                                       widget ready for
>                                                       rendering? I think
>                                                       forcing an
>                                                       onModeChanged 
event
>                                                       is a hack. No mode
>                                                       change is going 
on.
>                                                       Just a trick for a
>                                                       pseudo 
standardized
>                                                       render step. 
Widget
>                                                       not yet ready 
should
>                                                       put up an 
hourglass
>                                                       if not ready to
>                                                       render. Widget 
itself
>                                                       may need to make
>                                                       requests before it 
is
>                                                       ready to render
>                                                       everything.
> 
> 
>                                                       Stew: Rich, are 
you
>                                                       on? No. I'll try 
to
>                                                       represent Rich.
>                                                       Popcorn model.
>                                                       Initial render. 
You
>                                                       get data and
>                                                       rendering will 
morph.
>                                                       It sounds like you
>                                                       can queue events
>                                                       before you get 
data
>                                                       from the server. 
But
>                                                       I am nervous about
>                                                       all of the moving
>                                                       parts. At load 
time,
>                                                       getMode() should
>                                                       work. Agree that
>                                                       modeChanged should
>                                                       only happen when a
>                                                       mode changes. In
>                                                       portals, want to
>                                                       batch events 
before
>                                                       talking to 
servers.
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: I would 
say
>                                                       that is
> implementation-specific.
>  Not something to put into the widget spec.
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: Maybe a 
future
>                                                       version of the 
widget
>                                                       spec could batch 
APIs
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: Not really
>                                                       related to load or
>                                                       modechange
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: I agree.
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: In the 
onload
>                                                       call, you can call
>                                                       getMode()
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: Sort of 
hidden.
>                                                       How about passing 
a
>                                                       param object to 
the
>                                                       onLoad handler, 
where
>                                                       we define one
>                                                       parameter right 
now,
>                                                       which is the 
initial
>                                                       mode?
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: If code
>                                                       supports multiple
>                                                       modes, you need to
>                                                       check anyway. Just 
as
>                                                       easy to check with
>                                                       getMode() as with
>                                                       param.initialMode
> 
> 
>                                                       Stew: I was 
thinking
>                                                       like Howard, but 
good
>                                                       point that it is
>                                                       hidden
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: No
>                                                       params.mode.
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: Add
>                                                       informative note 
to
>                                                       spec that if your
>                                                       widget supports
>                                                       multiple modes, 
you
>                                                       should call 
getMode()
>                                                       to determine the
>                                                       initial mode
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: If you
>                                                       call getMode() 
within
>                                                       an onModeChanged
>                                                       callback, you get 
the
>                                                       new node.
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: What about 
the
>                                                       'renderBy' 
property
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: Add
>                                                       complexity
> 
> 
>                                                       Stew: My 
experience,
>                                                       property editors
>                                                       mostly done by
>                                                       container's UI, 
but
>                                                       sometimes widgets
>                                                       will have a custom
>                                                       edit mode
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: Why not 
just
>                                                       always honor the
>                                                       widget's edit 
mode?
> 
> 
>                                                       Stew: Might be
>                                                       security issues
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: Yes, with 
frame
>                                                       isolation in
>                                                       different domains,
>                                                       but this is more 
of
>                                                       an implementation
>                                                       complexity issue 
due
>                                                       to security rather
>                                                       than a security
>                                                       issue. Another
>                                                       question is the UI
>                                                       designer. He might
>                                                       design the mashup
>                                                       app's UI to put
>                                                       property editor
>                                                       dialogs on the 
right
>                                                       side of the window
>                                                       always and might 
feel
>                                                       that UI 
consistency
>                                                       is more important
>                                                       than adding 
support
>                                                       for the custom 
editor
>                                                       UI provided by the
>                                                       widget which will
>                                                       show within the
>                                                       widget, which is
>                                                       different than 
other
>                                                       widgets, so for UI
>                                                       consistency, the 
edit
>                                                       mode might not be
>                                                       honored.
> 
> 
>                                                       Stew: Then there 
is
>                                                       the IDE 
perspective,
>                                                       where a runtime
>                                                       environment isn't
>                                                       available. In most
>                                                       IDE scenarios, the
>                                                       tool would have to
>                                                       put up its own
>                                                       property editor 
and
>                                                       ignore the custom
>                                                       edit content.
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: Yes
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: OK, I'll
>                                                       cave. OK to leave
>                                                       renderedBy.
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION,: 
Approve
>                                                       renderedBy 
property
>                                                       on onModeChanged
>                                                       payload
> 
> 
>                                                       Issue 3: Remove
>                                                       'topic' attribute
>                                                       from <property>
>                                                       element
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: What we moved 
to
>                                                       in email 
discussion
>                                                       is that we might 
want
>                                                       to offer an 
exchange
>                                                       name that might be
>                                                       different than the
>                                                       'name' attribute,
>                                                       which is used 
locally
>                                                       within the widget
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: Yes, but 
not
>                                                       sure of the best
>                                                       attribute name
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: externalName 
or
>                                                       sharedName?
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: Let's put
>                                                       those down for now
> 
> 
>                                                       Stew: sharedName 
or
>                                                       shareName?
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: Change
>                                                       'topic' attribute 
to
>                                                       'sharedName'
>                                                       attribute. See if
>                                                       people can think 
of a
>                                                       better attribute 
name
>                                                       than 'sharedName'.
> 
> 
>                                                       Issue 4: Property
>                                                       onChange 
notification
>                                                       events
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon: Should 
widgets
>                                                       see their own
>                                                       changes?
> 
> 
>                                                       Howard: If not, 
then
>                                                       system has to put
>                                                       special logic into
>                                                       the HubClient side
> 
> 
>                                                       Rich: If echoes 
back,
>                                                       causes 
complexities
>                                                       to developers
> 
> 
>                                                       (unminuted long
>                                                       discussion.)
> 
> 
>                                                       Jon proposes that
>                                                       setPropertyValue()
>                                                       semantics are 
really
> requestSetPropertyValue
> () since container can deny the request, such as due to security policy
> 
> 
>                                                       Agreement that
>                                                       setPropertyValue()
>                                                       can be an async
>                                                       action, depending 
on
>                                                       whether widgets 
are
>                                                       isolated into 
Iframes
>                                                       and whether server
>                                                       requests might 
happen
>                                                       during processing
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: Spec
>                                                       needs to say that
>                                                       setPropertyValue()
>                                                       can be async and 
may
>                                                       be denied
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: Up to
>                                                       widget developers 
to
>                                                       prevent infinite
>                                                       loop, such as 
attempt
>                                                       to force a 
property
>                                                       to a certain value
>                                                       via 
setPropertyValue
>                                                       () within onchange
>                                                       callback
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: Add
>                                                       'self' boolean
>                                                       property to 
onChange
>                                                       payload to 
indicate
>                                                       whether property
>                                                       change came from 
same
>                                                       widget
> 
> 
>                                                       RESOLUTION: 
onChange
>                                                       is called always,
>                                                       even if
>                                                       setPropertyValue()
>                                                       came from same 
widget
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
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> 
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Howard Weingram      650.846.1000
Principal Architect  TIBCO Software Inc.

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